Atheism a la Meme
December 21, 2008 12:35 am Personal, Philosophy, Religion
Way back in October, No More Mr. Nice Guy tagged me with a list of questions about atheism. I was busy at the time, and eventually forgot it. I just came across the link today, though, and with apologies to my fellow blogger, I reply today:
Can you remember the day that you officially became an atheist? Do you remember the day you officially became an agnostic?
Nope. It happened gradually. As early as 13, I wrote that I didn’t believe in God. My stepfather found it and gave me hell about it. But I must have had doubts about it even before then. I just didn’t see any evidence for the god hypothesis, and worse, everybody said different things about it. No matter how certain they seemed, nobody knew anything for sure.
Did anger towards God or religion help cause you to be an atheist or agnostic?
No. I was concerned early on that my conclusion might be mistaken, but I was never angry at a god or gods. Even those verbal formulations of anger you often hear — “What loving god could create liver flukes?!” — never really arose in me.
More than anything, the big mystery was how and why other people believed. People I knew and trusted talked about God and ghosts and such, but they never offered any clear evidence. It was all just words and confusion, backed up with suspiciously strong emotions.
Certainly I’ve become more angry about religion as the years have passed, since I started to understand what it’s done to us, how much we’ve lost, and what a stranglehold religion continues to hold on society and government.
Were you agnostic towards ghosts, even after you became an atheist?
I was afraid of ghosts up through my teens. I remember walking past a graveyard at night when I was about 17 and being really spooked every time. But again, despite all the stories, I’d never seen one. Eventually I just stopped being afraid. I could probably sleep soundly in the hauntedest of houses.
The worst part about the subject of ghosts – and religion – is knowing that so many of my fellows turn into superstitious savages in the face of it. Imagine living among monkeys, with nobody to talk to or share with, and you’ll have an idea what that feels like.
Do you want to be wrong?
No, not at all. Good gosh, what for?
Early on, I really, really, really wanted to believe in flying saucers. Hey, I’m a fan of SF still today. When I was younger I read everything I could possibly find on strange occurrences, UFOs, paranormal subjects, Bigfoot, on and on. Eventually, in the face of millions of words but no slightest bit of evidence that I could see, the desire just faded away. I learned that real critters leave real tracks – tracks that you don’t need to be an expert (or a specially anointed priest) to experience. X-rays are about as hidden as anything can get from unaided human senses, and yet we use them casually every day – I’m sure most reading this have had an X-ray at one time or another.
All the magic in the world is the magic of love and imagination and discovery. Religion and superstition are just silliness, beliefs that held on long after we had the real answers … probably because some people are just too lazy or too scared to learn the real thing. They want to settle for the hopeful fantasy, no matter how much damage that does to them, or the people around them.
M :
Date: December 23, 2008 @ 10:06 pm
I think there might be ghosts, but if there are, we’ll eventually be able to explain them scientifically — they’re not magic or spiritual things.
Lilian Nattel :
Date: December 24, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
I don’t think anyone could deny that religion has been the basis of a lot of horrible stuff–but so has science. The rampant racialism of the western world in the late 19th and early 20th centuries was based on scientific “evidence.” Personally, I think that when people want to do horrible stuff, whatever their underlying motivation, they use the discourse that is current at the time, whether that is cultural, religious, scientific or whatever. There’s nothing wrong with being an atheist or a theist, in my opinion. What matters is whether it leads someone to be kinder or the reverse, and in my observation it can go either way. I completely agree with your statement about the magic of love and imagination. In my own experience that is grounded in a light that is non-material. That is my experience. Yours is otherwise. I wouldn’t try to argue you out of yours; nor can I be persuaded out of mine. My faith is not in the existence of that light, which is a matter of experience, but in the possibility of an okay tomorrow, which is up for grabs, depending on the choices that people make.
hankfox :
Date: December 26, 2008 @ 12:09 pm
On the other hand, if you’re counting GOOD stuff, science has created unimaginable masses of it. Hell, I could mention nothing but dentistry, and you could count in the billions the people who have benefited in increased qualify of life and lessening of pain.
Whereas religion has created … what? No equivalent, even just to dentistry, that I know of.
Religion has at its core the denial of reality and an enforced dependence on belief in myths. The fuzzy thinking that’s resulted from that — I suspect that if we really knew the truth, that most of that “bad” stuff supposedly due to science is actually due to fuzzy faithistic thinking in the heads of people who used science to carry out their bent visions.
Crudely Wrott :
Date: December 27, 2008 @ 2:37 am
Hello, Hank. Interesting post. Your answers seem familiar to me. Perhaps we have traveled similar paths.
If I may offer my capsule answers-
Can you remember the day that you officially became an atheist? Do you remember the day you officially became an agnostic?
No. but I do recall first thinking that the God idea was worth something when I was about six or seven. I continually overheard people talking about it and therefore I lent it some credence. Within a year I had engaged in a long and sincere attempt to speak to it. No reply.
Did anger towards God or religion help cause you to be an atheist or agnostic?
No. It was apparent early on that my base state did not include the God idea. I did not then have the desire or knowledge to refute the idea. The idea was simply not demonstrated to my satisfaction. As a result I felt justified in assuming the absence of the unseen as opposed to its unseen presence.
OK, I was a bit put out that I had spent a lot of effort to talk to it, but it did not say a word. I withdrew gracefully, as a child is wont to do. After all, I had the last word.
Were you agnostic towards ghosts, even after you became an atheist?
The memories are not as distinct as I wish. I think that to this day I maintain ghosts at my own pleasure. That is, it is not they (ghosts, or dead people) who manifest themselves, it is I. Memory. Sadness. Honor.
Do you want to be wrong?
Only if it helps to solve some riddle. Otherwise, to be correct beats all other hands.